Mindful U Podcast 93. Jaguar Womban: Words Do Not Teach

Jaguar Womban
TRT 64:15

[MUSIC]
David:
Hello, and welcome to Mindful U at Naropa. A podcast presented by Naropa University in
Boulder, Colorado. I’m your host, David Devine. And it’s a pleasure to welcome you. Joining
the best of Eastern and Western educational traditions — Naropa is the birthplace of the modern
mindfulness movement.
David:
Hello, everyone and welcome to another episode of the Mindful U Podcast. Today we have a
very special guest in the studio with me, Jaguar Womban. Jaguar is a multi dimensional healing
artist, medicine woman, a visionary Mother of the womb nation. And she also works with herbs,
ancestral channeling, poetry and ceremonial plant medicine. She is in town today to speak at
Naropa as a keynote speaker for the practice day. We welcome her to Naropa and also the
Mindful U podcast. Thank you for joining us. Also, I just know literally you just got off the
airplane. I just picked you up from your hotel. And how are you doing? Welcome.
Jaguar Womban:
I’m so happy to meet you. It was very soul family right away. LAUGHS
David:
It’s true. Like we’ve been vibing the whole — we just got some coffee.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
And now we just like came back to the studio to have this awesome conversation. So, it’s really
nice to have you. So welcome to Boulder.
Jaguar Womban:
Thank you. I’m honored.
David:
And you came from where?
Jaguar Womban:
Oaxaca.
David:
Oaxaca.

Jaguar Womban:
Oaxaca, Mexico.
David:
And you currently live there, right?
Jaguar Womban:
I live there. It’s my base. I bounce still, but it’s my base and it’s the Jaguar base — the very —
the Jaguar energy wants to be there and feels very rested when there. And when I’m in other
places. I feel like I’m working. So that’s the unique energy that Oaxaca gives me — yeah, yeah,
yeah.
David:
The way you’re using your name, it’s like a personality. Do you — when you go somewhere
else, is there like a different name you use? Or is it always Jaguar? But Jaguar lives in Oaxaca?
Jaguar Womban:
Hmm. Well, yeah, yeah, I like that you said that. La Vonne is my birth name. And initially, we’ll
get into it later, I’m sure. But initially, following my death experience, I was very like La Vonne
is dead. And I would say that a lot. Yeah, I felt like she left the body. She was not part of what
was going on. And I was more finding out like who’s here now, which then has also gone on the
path of having many different names. But the Jaguar energy (laughs) comes out strong. So, it’s
like when she’s in the building, she’s in the building. You know what I mean?
David:
Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
You know what I mean?
David:
You know how I feel about Jaguars?
Jaguar Womban:
Yes.
David:
So, we have a thing.
JAGUAR LAUGHS
David:
I was telling her earlier about like my Jaguars story. I think I’ve said it before on the podcast, so
I’ll just — I won’t go there. But I like Jaguars as well.
Jaguar Womban:

We’re related.
David:
We pretty much are. I mean, we are in many senses, we’re both graduates of Naropa. We were
both kind of like in the more psychedelic, mystical, energetic ways of thought and being you
know, the podcast called Mindful U. You do a lot of mindful practices. So, we’re like family
here.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the big cat family — that like Naropa energy with a specific
type of shamanic energy, with the plant medicine energy, that’s a specific soul tribe. That’s all
my things mixed together. Not all my things — more things will come. But —
David:
They always do, right.
Jaguar Womban:
They always do.
David:
Awesome. So, to get started, welcome to Boulder. And we’re so happy to have you. So
tomorrow, you’re speaking at Naroda’s practice day. And I remember attending a lot of those.
It’s — it’s such a rad thing to attend, because it’s, you know, I think they take off classes, and
they just have a bunch of awesome speakers. And you’re one of them. And you’re the keynote
and I’m curious, like, what are you going to be talking about, like what is calling to you to speak
upon?
Jaguar Womban:
Well, the title that I’ve given things is “Conjuring the Language of the Liminal Space, Voces del
Polvo. But this is — it’s more layered for me, it has like one layer of the Spanish mixed with the
English and the liminal and the in between conjuring within it, that’s going to be like a telling of
my story, a sharing of my near death experience, and then some of the poetic work of my
master’s thesis. And my master’s thesis, half of it was written before my death, and half of it was
written after the death. Then it’s also written in English and Spanish with nawat, indigenous
words like mixed in. So, I want to go into a space sharing the mirror of my journey. Also, with
just that energy of I’ve been thinking about how the words don’t teach — something I say a lot.
The words don’t teach and just being in a space where we’re in the in between, and you’re
receiving the download, like the energetic transmission from the person, but it’s coming up to
your body in a visceral way. So that it’s, for each person, kind of the same frequencies coming
through. But then it’s processed uniquely in their own mind with their own path, because it’s
something experiential. So, I want to like find the language of that in between space, that’s a
frequency communication, not just word based. And I’ve taken a lot of words to say that.
LAUGHS. But yeah —
David:
So okay, hold on.

Jaguar Womban:
Rewind.
David:
You just said the words don’t teach, what do mean by that? I think I understand you, but I’m
curious of like, how you define that.
Jaguar Womban:
Okay, what when I say the words don’t teach, it’s because, and it’s taking it back to my main
practice, which we’ll talk about later. But the womb steaming and just the physical practices,
even in yoga, like wisdom is Guiana, it’s something it’s a — it’s a body knowledge, it’s like you
move through the different physical postures and motions to arrive at an internal awakening of a
knowledge, which then can be expressed in words, which is really different than the hypnotic
mind programming of listening to somebody else’s words come through, and then taking them in
and then spouting them back out as your own, which is an energetically dangerous territory, that
can often happen in spiritual practices, and leads to like messy guru shit. And so, when I say the
words don’t teach, it’s like, this is the frequency experience that you can have. From this
experience, you have your own internal awakening, and then your own words will arrive from
that, because we’re all just with language trying to put — like encapsulate the experiences and
the frequencies and the energetics of whatever we’re feeling. So, I just liked this idea of the
words that we’re saying coming from something that’s birthed within, from an experience that
you have. And when it’s something experiential, I think you feel less need to proselytize about it.
And like knock on doors about it, it’s just you’re holding it inside. And that’s very womb magic
energies like Yoni egg energy, just holding the mystery inside, and it’s radiating from you. And
it’s not based on the words either, you know, and I also love doing a lot of silent gatherings. I
love doing silent retreats and also teaching in my own personal work, like offering things where
you’re just sitting with me in the energy. And then I love how it feels. You feel me? Yeah, yeah.
David:
So, and we just said, do you feel me? So, I think what I’m hearing from you is knowledge is
words. But wisdom is understanding. Because like, I can tell you how things were. But then
when you know how they work, and you know how it’s going to work for certain situations, you
know, I think that’s wise, because I think wisdom is personalized too.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes, I think the — it’s the experience that teaches us and when something is experiential, you
also don’t feel — we live in a very easy like trigger sensitive — right now things are getting
more — everybody’s like, very easily triggered, right.
David:
Supercharged.
Jaguar Womban:
Supercharged, right? So, I think it’s also the time when what’s happening as a con — as a human
consciousness, on the flip side, you know, like, what’s the — what’s the other side of us being so

charged? I think that we’re remembering our telepathic nature. It’s like a lot less messy when
we’re telepathically communicating. So, it’s going to be amazing when we evolve and remember
back to that place, the capacity that we have to be able to do that. So yay, right? And practicing
— yay!
David:
Yay.
Jaguar Womban:
So, yay. LAUGHS. One of my favorite words. Like in that same sense of when you have the
experience, it’s something that you can feel in that person. And that’s the authenticity. With
words we can like lie and like trap and like learn and like seduce and like mislead.
David:
And also like your definition, my definition might not match.
Jaguar Womban:
Right. But with energetics, the energy doesn’t lie. So you sit with somebody, and if you just like
go in, I used to do this thing with blindfolding people in a space and whatever, and being silent,
but you sit with somebody, you feel their energy, you start to conjure a language, and like a
definition in your own mind already, like around what they feel, like what you might imagine
that they look like and all of that, but you’re just feeling their energetics and that won’t lie. You
might take off your blindfold, and it’s like a guy wearing a Trump hat. But like underneath that
Trump — of that hat or whatever, his belief system wasn’t expressing his physicality. That’s all
words to me, that’s like word level. But underneath that you could still be like in a soul level
connected or feeling like an exchange that’s holding you and bonding you and I feel excited
about us remembering that we have the capacity to do that and to get to that space. I do a lot of
birth work, right. And when you see a woman she’s had — birthed a child, its experience that’s
completely shamanic. You go out of the body. You come back in — like a home birth, like —
David:
A person comes out of you.
Jaguar Womban:
That — a person comes out of you, like if you see — I have a belief system inside about
everybody should see one birth, just everybody, we should just see one time. And that would
calm us all down too, you’re like, well, we’re complete — we’re aliens, like, who knows what’s
happening here, to be kind of just like a rite of passage for humankind. But that’s a good
example of the words don’t teach. You would never go back to a woman following a birth and be
like, I really feel like that was like this for you and then like this. It’s like, no, no, no.
David:
Suds like, mansplaining.
Jaguar Womban:

Yeah, mansplaining is strong example of the words I’m teaching. Everywhere — where I’m
coming from, it’s always this like womb, space energy, this like void womb, black hole, birthing
source, original space, the authenticity, the uniqueness, all of that is in one cauldron for me. So,
all of these things, to me, it’s — it’s womb work when I’m trying to like evoke, and like wake up
within everybody, no matter your body.
David:
So like male and female bodies.
Jaguar Womban:
No matter your body.
David:
Because it’s like I don’t have a womb, but I — so I’ve studied like internal martial arts when I
was younger, and a lot of Asian culture things and the (?) is right where the womb is located. So,
where heaven and earth meet is right where the source of your energy is. And so, you know,
you’re using different words, but we’re kind of talking about the same thing.
Jaguar Womban:
It’s the same thing.
David:
Yeah, the source.
Jaguar Womban:
The source energy, and everything comes from this one door. So, it is a unifying force. It’s not
something to be viewed as what’s dividing our bodies. To me, it’s the one — like you, it’s a one
strong unifying force of the humankind. We come from the womb, there’s no other doorway
here. So, what you come from in sense that the sky is a mirror, and as above, so below, and
things are always a reflection of what they are, of course, we have the womb within the body,
right? Some have chosen to carry the portal in a specific way. And then for balance, there’s
always a mirror. The portal, same energy, you know, will be carried in like another reflected
way. But we must all have that same source, because it is where we are coming from and what
we are and what we’re going to, it’s the full circle, the womb energy. So, it’s how I feel.
David:
We all come from a womb.
Jaguar Womban:
We all come from a womb.
David:
So, it’s our relationship to the womb.
Jaguar Womban:

And we can’t argue about that. So, you can be like, well, you’re calling me a woman, but I think
I’m a man.
David:
That’s facts.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah, what’s facts and what is unarguable, is that we come from a womb. There’s no other door
at this time that we’ve identified.
David:
I like the idea of a door. It’s like a portal, transformation, we’re coming through. Here we are.
But we had to come through the door that everybody comes through.
Jaguar Womban:
Everybody.
David:
And you’d like you said there’s no other way here.
Jaguar Womban:
No.
David:
But here we are.
Jaguar Womban:
Right. I think acknowledging that brings us to this root place. And then okay, the theme right
now at Naropa, the practice week theme that they gave me is Art as a Revolution, right?
David:
Oh, you’re perfect for this.
Jaguar Womban:
And to me, like revolution — what is revolutionary is when we embody our authenticity, boom.
And what is happening right now, like the attack coming in from the skies, and like, into our
eyes, like on the media, and like the voices, it’s like, no, homogenized, like a homogenized state
of beauty. A homogenized definition of artistic expression, a homogenized — like just a sense of
this is what this is, and then you copy this, if you want to succeed as an artist, or as a, whatever it
is, we’ve just like, we’ve defined it with some words, and then you fit into that. And then you
walk this, like, pre-established path, it’s just the death of authenticity, it’s the death of
uniqueness. Even you’re looking at faces in Hollywood, they have like these makeup movies and
they’ll be like, oh, the black one, the Asian one, the white one, and they’ll all have the same
exact face, I love like — be like, because they’ll just choose this one definition of what beauty is.
And then maybe slightly, whatever, and then just show it to you over and over and over again.
And if you don’t look like that, then you’re not fitting into this current —

David:
Yeah, you don’t fit into the mold.
Jaguar Womban:
You’re not fitting in the mold. But it — the whole point is fuck the mold.
David:
But who — yeah, and then we also have to ask, like, who’s creating the mold because we are
mold creators as well. And we get to create our own unique mold and or just presence of how we
show up.
Jaguar Womban:
We’re shapeshifters.
David:
Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
What — just the energy of flowing into the mold is a — is a — is a little death, you know, not in
an orgasmic way. Because the little death (laughs) —
David:
But we don’t want that. We want to go —
Jaguar Womban:
We want to go the other way and like we can mold everything around who we are and shape
shift and move freely. And I really think that bottom line with the revolution, what’s
revolutionary right now is authenticity, and feeling and speaking and moving from your own
unique place and acknowledging the uniqueness that you carry, which is connected to this womb
energy and the one door.
David:
Yeah, yes. Oh my god, you’re too easy to talk to.
Jaguar Womban:
LAUGHS
David:
I haven’t even asked my second question.
Jaguar Womban:
LAUGHS. So that’s one.
David:

I’m gonna ask it. But I just — I kind of just want you to go quickly through it because there’s so
much good content that I feel like we can get into. But I feel like this is a very important question
because we’re on a Naropa podcast. You’re a Naropa alum. So am I. And I just want to know,
what did you graduate from with Naropa? And how has the experience you’ve had at Naropa
helped you with what you’re doing now?
Jaguar Womban:
So Naropa is a frequency call. Also, I didn’t graduate from Naropa. So, I like that Naropa loves
me and brings me back for alum things all the time.
David:
I’m going to leave that in the podcast. Even though —
Jaguar Womban:
LAUGHS. I love that. And Naropa shouts me out.
David:
Well, what did you go for?
Jaguar Womban:
But what’s magical about Naropa is I was invited here, first I was Zora Neale Hurston scholar for
the poetry program. And they brought me here for the summer writer program for all four weeks,
and they flew me here, and they put me up and it was like the most amazing thing that had ever
happened in my life so far, at that time. They just — Naropa was like, we love your work.
You’re amazing. Come here. And then I had my own, like a one hour poetry reading, just
reading my stuff. And I just home the Black Madonna — la Madonna Negra. And it was like —
in this one part, it’s like she’s taken it up her ass with her fist in the air, la Madonna is
everywhere. And I said that in that auditorium. And everybody stood up and they were like,
woo! I mean, I was like, oh, and that was La Vonne. That was like me prior to car accident. I feel
like I had a more raw kind of like, energy with my work. LAUGHS. But it was the first time that
I’d felt such a merit — the response of like yeah, like we’re getting what you’re — we’re picking
up what you’re putting down. That was Naropa and after that very reading Anne Waldman who
at that time, I don’t know if she’s still the director of the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied
Poetic?
David:
Yeah, I actually haven’t followed up with like the program people. But she’s been a long time
Naropa person.
Jaguar Womban:
Okay, so she —
David:
She helped found Naropa.
Jaguar Womban:

She’s a founder.
David:
Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
Ann Waldman came up to me and was like, this school was created for your work, like, come
here. And at that time, I was writing my master’s thesis at Cal State LA in poetry. I was
completing my master’s thesis, and I was already having this plan to do an MA MFA. So, I was
like, great, and she’s like, we’re gonna get you a scholarship. So, I was accepted to the MFA
program. And I came, I never graduated, because also the car hit me. I was still enrolled.
David:
Okay. Well, you know what, there’s — there’s like this thing that like must be asked, what
happened?
Jaguar Womban:
What car —
David:
So, you’re NDE? A Near Death Experience. I did read your bio. And I did read that there was
this huge transformational moment. And you like sort of mentioned it, but can you briefly tell us
like what happened and how that, in a sense, transformed who you are now and what you’re
doing now?
Jaguar Womban:
Yes. Wait —
David:
Because it sounds like it just sort of happened.
Jaguar Womban:
Rewind too, also you said like, what did Naropa — how did you ask me like, what has Naropa
—
David:
Oh, how —
Jaguar Womban:
To my current path, right?
David:
How has the experience that you had at Naropa helped shape the work you’re doing now?
Jaguar Womban:

Wait, but it’s all connected, because I feel like the experience at Naropa was so like, euphoric
and cathartic, and like, revolutionary inside me that it took me to this place, what was left for me
but to be hit by a car and to die. Like it was just so amazing. And I came here. I was living in LA
—
David:
How many people say that?
Jaguar Womban:
LAUGHS. I had an amazing experience here. I came here. And um, I felt very seen, I could feel
the magic of this — I mean, Boulder, we are in sacred spaces, although we’ve been trampling,
walking over them for a long time, some acknowledging the energy of the Mother Earth between
us and some not. But like these mountains are magic. The frequency of this location was chosen
for a reason. Exactly where Naropa was Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche chose it for a reason,
because of the lay lines and the energetics of this place. And it was like between here and some
other magical foreign location, which I wish I could remember. It was like between Boulder —
David:
It’s in Canada.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes. Like in Canada.
David:
I’m forgetting the name, but I know what you’re talking about. A lot of the teachers actually live
there.
Jaguar Womban:
Oh really?
David:
When they come here. Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
Oh, okay.
David:
I’m trying to think of it —
Jaguar Womban:
Or Pema Chodron.
David:
I think so. Yeah. Nova Scotia. No.
Jaguar Womban:

I was born in Canada.
David:
Really?
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
You wouldn’t know more than me.
Jaguar Womban:
But no, but I left there really young. Okay, but Naropa is a magical place. So, whatever the
catharsis is that you experience when you come here, it’s like you are stepping into — separate
from Naropa and the professor and your major and other students, you’re in a frequency portal
and it’s like, it’s not the words teaching. It’s not the words teaching. It’s this place. It’s going to
awaken and open things inside of you. It’s — things are going to start moving around, and when
things start moving around — dah, dah, dah — that doesn’t always feel like amazing and
pleasant. And like frolicking through the grass. It’s — can also feel like purgative. And —
David:
Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
You feel me? So Naropa has that energy.
David:
It’s like an energetic purge.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes.
David:
But it’s scary because you’re like, well, because you’re so attached to who you were? Or maybe
who you think you are. And then when that’s kind of leaving you, you’re like, uh oh, who am I?
Jaguar Womban:
Right.
David:
And then you get to redefine.
Jaguar Womban:
Which is really the juiciest part of everything when you’re like —
David:

It’s true. But you need a good foundation to like, make the decisions upon that, though.
Jaguar Womban:
Right. Right. And all that is true. And — but the energy of Naropa being its own — the space,
the mountains, the place, the intention behind its creation, and birthing into a physical reality,
from idea to physicality, all of that is coming from like a sacred intention. Separate from the
humanity and the mistakes and like logistics and bureaucracy that exists because it’s an actual
school now, right? That’s like a whole other layer, keeping with this energy of the words don’t
teach, it’s like the energy of the space is teaching. And me moving through here, I think, played a
very significant role in what happened next. Because literally, it’s like, I came here in 2008, then
I moved, and I was like, okay, and I’m going to come here, I’m going to attend. And then they
gave me a scholarship, another one. And I started at the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied
Poetics with the MFA program and was having an amazing time. And in this whole journey is
when I was hit by the car, which was in Madison, Wisconsin. So, what happened in terms of a
timeline, a linear timeline, is a woman passes out with her foot on the gas in Madison,
Wisconsin. She’s going faster and faster, and she’s going the wrong way down a one way street.
She hits a car and that impact pops open the hood of her car, and sends that car like flying. I’m
getting off a bus — like cut to like the movie, you know, cut to La Vonne Caesar is like getting
off a bus. But I don’t have a memory of this. I’m just reciting because I say it a lot in podcasts. I
say it in my circles, I say it in retreats. And I’m just reciting the police report actually, that I used
to stare out and try to understand and it would be like person one, person two, vehicle impact.
She flew this way. So, she — that opens the hood of her car, which she then vroom and hits me
and kind of swallows me onto — into the hood, like it closes and traps me. She keeps going
because her foot still on the gas. She hits a Cosi restaurant, she goes through the glass front of
the restaurant, hits a woman in there and pins that woman to the far wall. But that impact
dislodges as my body and sends me flying to Henry and Johnson a few blocks away. Because the
paramedics and the cops and firemen — everybody was already following her, the police and
everything, because of her long trajectory going the wrong way down — in this walking campus
areas on Madison, Wisconsin campus, University Wisconsin Madison, that was part of the
blessing because they were able to see where my body flew towards and then follow. So they
follow and then they find me and I’m clinically dead when they find me. Okay, so that is what’s
happening in Earth 3D linear realm of the movie. And then it’s like, cut to like, the inner
dynamics of La Vonne Caesar. And this is all going to go back to conjuring the language of the
liminal space, Voces del Polvo, the master’s thesis, which is what I was writing when this impact
happened, right?
Okay, so my memory, me the — this body talking to you, I remember see — first meeting this
body, me, from above. A being and white bringing me over to this. And then I was like above
(laughs) and then they’re like, you’re gonna go in there, you’re gonna finish the work. And
feeling like, and it wasn’t — like, this is how I can tell the story, you know, it wasn’t like
somebody said, you’re gonna go — it was just like this is — it was like, the words don’t teach.
So this was the communication. And I’m trying to put it into the words now. So then there was a
resistance, like, that’s not going to be amazing. You’re like, you’re gonna go and be this black
woman in 2020 or whatever. LAUGHS. Oh, my God, do I want to do that? And feeling
resistance like, then feeling the crown of the body, like soften, open in a magnetic pull. And then
like, down inside, I can’t say very loudly, like, feels more like magical. And just feeling like

pulled inside. And I often describe it as diving into a swimming pool. And then like, because the
water is part and then you enter. And it feels like you kind of get locked in it — like the tips of
the fingers and the tips of the toes, like the edges of the skin. And then a flip in perspective. So
then you’re floating in the pool, then like — the pool hardens like it’s — it was concrete. It was
just temporarily liquid. And then now — you know so you dive in, you shift perspective, and
then it flips and then you’re trapped. And then I think that trapped energy is what is called
Western language, the PTSD, the trauma part. And then I don’t even call it an NDE, because it
was like I was deep in the D. So like —
David:
The liminal space.
Jaguar Womban:
The liminal space.
David:
You were like between the Bardo and alive.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes.
David:
You know you because —
Jaguar Womban:
Yes.
David:
Because I’ve heard —
Jaguar Womban:
Yes, Naropa. That’s where I was at.
David:
Yeah. Because you’re — you’re having like that, like the tube of going to the Bardo, the
afterlife. And then — but your angels are meeting you and saying, like, hey, we’re not done here.
But I think you always have a decision on that. And they’re like, but you’re gonna show up and
do the work. And you’re kind of like —
Jaguar Womban:
I think my journey has been a large — and this takes us back to the beginning, when you’re like,
I was saying Jaguar rests in Oaxaca. Like she feels calm there. There has been this sense of not
feeling like a fully consensual participant in the experience of the 3D physical realm in life,
because of the suddenness of like, the impact, and then the exit, and then the entry. And like
telling, like, go in there and like do the work, and the resistance. So there has been now my
healing journey, and the journey of awakening my own medicine and power as an artist, creator,

woman, medicine woman, whatever the language is that I want to put around the frequency that
I’m carrying. It has a lot to do with softening into accepting what you just said, which is that if
I’m here, no matter the storyline, there is a choice and an acceptance to be here. You know, after
re-entering the body, and opening back up my eyes. I went through the relearning experience,
like I left the hospital in a wheelchair, so it was like a lot of physical therapy, occupational
therapy, speech therapy, all of the therapies, trauma counseling, a lot of medicating the brain,
seizure medications, and a lot of Klonopin, and a lot of you know, all those kinds of things, to
kind of get you into the body, a lot of programming, a lot of showing the images and saying who
is this? This is you, you’re La Vonne. And I’m like, I don’t know who this bitch is, what? And
it’s like who is this? This is you in this photo and a lot of mirror things —
David:
Like that used to be me.
Jaguar Womban:
No, it didn’t feel like it used to me. It would be like they would show you maybe you with
different people. And they’d be like, who is you here? And then I’d be like, I don’t know, I don’t
recognize these people. And it would be like showing you a mirror, like showing you reflections
in a mirror. And then you’re not in the box — so you’re not understanding and then saying like,
this is you, this is you. This is you! But who do we do that with, babies? We — babies, we give
them mirrors. Like you’re Tommy and I’m your mommy.
David:
Yeah, like a cognitive decline. It’s like a rewiring. So was your like brain banged up? Because it
sounds like your body really got banged up. But —
Jaguar Womban:
I didn’t break any bones?
David:
Really?
Jaguar Womban:
And I flew really, really far. And that would come up a lot, even in the court case. And then I
remember in the court case, at one point, they’re like, were you a yogi, and I never considered
myself a yogi in terms of Asana, like physicality.
David:
Like you fall really well.
Jaguar Womban:
They’re like, you fall well. You’re still bouncy.
David:
Thank you?

Jaguar Womban:
Thank you.
David:
That is so wild.
Jaguar Womban:
You’re so bouncy. I’m like I am Caribbean. But um — LAUGHS.
David:
mean, honestly, the like, near death experience sounds more psychedelic than psychedelics.
Jaguar Womban:
Right, which is why my journey with psychedelics has also been unique. My journey with
psychedelics has to do with grounding and becoming — feeling less psychedelic for a moment,
which is relaxing for my brain. The psychedelic experiences I have had had been very — I’ve
been experiencing a polarity to what the rest of the people in the room had been experiencing. So
I’ve been like feeling really human and embodied. And like quiet and not seeing magical colors
and people’s grandmothers. It’s been like it stops it for me.
David:
Interesting.
Jaguar Womban:
The medicines know what you need.
David:
It’s true, they do. And sometimes you think you know what you need until the medicine shows
up with something different. You’re like, wait a minute, hold on. How do I get out of this?
Jaguar Womban:
But I just want to say — I want to say something about the cognitive decline — it’s — it was
like a reboot blank slate, but everything about the car — air quotations, accident was a cognitive
upgrade. It was a restructuring. And it was an upgrade. And I’ve been coming back to — it
opened up areas of the brain. And it’s part of really part of like something I hold dear, which is
just the — I feel no resistance between like the juju and the science. I just think we should just
like be better friends so we can start like, you know, reflecting the truth of like, what’s really
going on because really what happened with me was a blow to — my head split open and five
places on this one side. But like really then now I’m channeling people’s grandma, right and like
talking to people’s vaginas. But so we should like use that scientifically and figure out like what
areas got stimulated in this woman’s brain. And we can like maybe laser people and everybody’s
talking to their grandma, you know what I mean? I think about that kind of thing a lot, because it
was a physical blow. And that opened up realms, it opened up my ability to access realms and
portals.
David:

It’s like it erased your neuroplasticity of like, where your mind would go in certain situations or
triggering how you would feel, and you had to rewire it. And then it sounds like because you had
a mystical experience, you were rewiring it in such a way, that it’s not how, like a normal person
would develop their brain.
Jaguar Womban:
Right. But it’s an amazing opportunity. And it’s an amazing artistic experience. And it’s just
when I look back, obviously, in the moment, there’s the levels of fear, I wonder how it would
have been if this had happened to me in a different societal structure, like, if it would have felt as
scary or if the fear was maybe given to me or if it was my own from within, you know, but I do
remember that initial moment of like, entering the body, and the terror of feeling the density.
Because going from the — all of the — the totality of the whole into the density, ooh, like I can,
even — when I talk about I feel it in my belly,
David:
That’s such an awesome visualization of the diving into it. And then the — the water is, like,
congealing into a harder shell. And then all of a sudden, you’re like, in the body. I’ve never
heard anything like that. And it just feels so right to me to hear something like that.
Jaguar Womban:
And the body is — it has limitations. But think of the limitations as artistic constraint, you know,
it’s like, I’m gonna make a painting with — I’m going to just make it up. I’m gonna make a
painting with these three colors/
David:
You need — you need paper to paint on.
Jaguar Womban:
And paper. Right?
David:
You can’t paint in the air.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah, right. And the artistic constraints are what bring out even more of, like, within the
constraint, there’s a freedom, you know, and I feel like that’s what my journey and coming back
into the body and like understanding the desire to go and then the power of staying, and it’s
really feeling how within the finite, we can move infinitely, you know, like, within the circle.
David:
Before we started the podcast, the way you spell your name is very unique. It’s very awesome.
And I want to talk about it for a little bit because I wanted to say Woo Man.
Jaguar Womban:
LAUGHS.

David:
So okay, what I’m saying is, she spells her last name, W-O-M-B-A-N, but she — you pronounce
it as woman, but you spell it womb, and an. And they really like that. And so real quick, what
inspired you to spell it that way? And to have that be your name? Where did they come from?
Jaguar Womban:
I don’t aesthetically resonate with the W-O-M-A-N. It doesn’t feel like what it is that I am. And
then I resonate with the womb energy, and the Jaguar energy. It’s like this, like intergalactic
mother Africa, rain forests, kind of black hole source, wild frequency, and I feel all that
encapsulated in the like, womb. And even like, womb, you know, it like womb, that I — I feel
that. I feel that. I don’t feel like a Wo Man. I feel like womb. So it’s that. And I also just like
saying, I’m spelling woman with a B. And the B energy is also birthing, you know,
David:
And you do a lot of work with the womb.
Jaguar Womban:
I do a lot of work with the womb.
Jaguar Womban:
It seems it seems like a lot of your work is probably more women than men — like I don’t know
if you work with men or not. But it seems very woman focused. You have a very clear goal, it
seems like and you’re just helping women and you’re very supportive.
Jaguar Womban:
I feel that I have an assignment. And then I have tried to best carry the assignment in a way that
doesn’t feel like it’s excluding anyone. But I have a very distinct assignment. And it goes back to
that moment of going back into the body to do this thing. I felt it feels very clear direct line to
that moment. And even in the moments of most desperation, when I was feeling really
disoriented and misaligned, I was aware that I was in here with an assignment. And the
assignment is this, what I can best you know, the words don’t teach, but I can best put language
to it as — as this womb frequency, right? And because it is the one door — no, I can reach
everyone. So it’s like it even is logistically intelligent as a strategy to go straight to the womb,
who is birthing the man that is raping the women? The mother — the mother of that man. Who
— it’s like everything is coming through the womb space. So it’s just I’m moving with precision
to affect the all. So I just want to go like straight into the — straight into the void, straight into
the computer center. And like, dah, dah, dah. When I teach wound steaming, I tell them it’s like,
just go right directly, reprogram the computer. Everything else is just caught — you’re talking
about the effects, you know, the Science of Mind, Ernest Holmes, like there’s cause and then
there’s effect. To me deepest most source cause is that womb energy. So go directly there. And
in many indigenous practices, it is said like the womb care, your birth all things, not just my own
reality, but all the realities, all the realities. And if I hear even with its six degrees of separation,
like a story about a woman who went through a trauma like over there, it’s for me to really
like…I love you. I’m sorry, please forgive me, thank you, I love you to over there. And to
myself, for even conjuring and birthing a world where there was a woman over there or a man
over there who could have that experience, really like taking not carrying it with like a weight of

responsibility, but with the liberation of your power, and rising to the occasion, and praying a
new prayer, if you see something that is unsettling. Instead of feeling oh, just saying like, okay,
this is part of my story that I’m birthing. I’m gonna go straight into the womb space and enter a
new program.
David:
It’s so good. You know, healthy wombs, make healthy people.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes!
David:
That’s what I’m hearing in my head.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes. So remember, this is an answer to do you work with men. So I feel like when I work with
the womb, I’m working — this is my way to work with all because it’s coming through this
doorway. So I don’t — and a lot of stuff that’s come up in my path has been like, oh, like this,
and we work with this body or like a of this woman — it’s like no, I’m working with the womb
energy, because I love all and want to reach all and it’s all come from this one place. Everything
goes back to it will be like rebirthing and your mama wound. What your mama did. It’s the door.
It always goes back to the door. And —
David:
You’re so on assignment. You’re on your assignment. Your angle right now, it’s just like, that’s
my girl.
Jaguar Womban:
Oh, I love you. LAUGHS. Ok, good, yeah, I think it’s been part of a journey to carry the
assignment with lightness. And living in Mexico helps me do that.
David:
Of course, right? Living in a very beautiful place, I’m sure helps all the things. Yeah, then
there’s a lot of like spirit and self development transformation. And so it seems like you can —
Jaguar Womban:
Have more energy.
David:
Yeah, you can really shine there.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes.
David:
I can see it.

Jaguar Womban:
I can shine. But I can also just discreetly walk amongst the crowd as — with like, not feeling
overly shiny in a way too, you know what I’m saying. There’s also a strong sense of like
lacunandera, the medicine woman, the shaman, you know, and you’re just at the market buying
avocados. It’s not — it’s like so prevalent that it’s less impressive. But still, there’s a direct
understanding like, oh, I feel — very often I’ll be in the market. And so I’m like, oh, are you a
healer? You’re a Kuranda woman. Let me take you — you should maybe find out about this herb
or this — it’s just very like, um, yeah, cool. Yeah. But also immediately identifying me — just
the other day at the market a man —
David:
Womb medicine?
Jaguar Womban:
Womb medicine was like, a magical man that was selling some used books, and he had these
magical Codex. Codex is — he was like (speaking Spanish) like you — you can’t walk around —
he’s like, you’ve passed the point where you can walk around without us knowing who you are
kind of thing. He just said to me, he’s like, oh, you’re a medicine woman. And then I was like,
oh, yeah kinda. I was like, kind of — you know how you do that?
David:
Maybe.
Jaguar Womban:
And then he was like, no, no, no, no, no,
David:
Oh, tell me more.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
Oh, go on, please. You know, light sees light.
Jaguar Womban:
Light see light. Yeah, there’s a lot of light in —
David:
I like to be in the dark.
Jaguar Womban:
Dark is a vibe.
David:

Yeah, yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
A womb vibe.
David:
I like to be in the shadows. But I’m very aware.
Jaguar Womban:
And you’re very bright. Your energy is very bright.
David:
Well yea, but it’s like — it’s like you can’t tell until you — until you tell.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
It’s very secretive. I feel that.
Jaguar Womban:
But where do animals even go and human women to when they’re left just alone to birth wildly,
which is rewilding birth and death and is part of — is a big aspect of the work, but we go to the
dark to birth — like to be like a dark cocoony place — then hospitals are like fluorescent lights.
It’s like true, but that’s not the desire.
David:
They put you on a bed.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah, laying flat with fluorescent lights.
David:
Pitocin and —
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
Epidural.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:

C section. They do — they do a lot of crazy stuff like you know, it has its place. But unnecessary
interventions I think happen pretty often. Sometimes interventions are very — they save the
woman, and they save the baby. So, I think there are — they have their place.
Jaguar Womban:
And sometimes the intervention is necessary because of the previous intervention where — so
it’s like you wouldn’t haven’t need it if you just like left it alone. So, it’s kind of like the cause
and effect of things.
David:
Well, it’s because they’re — the people in the hospital are not doulas or midwives.
Jaguar Womban:
Right. Which is —
David:
They’re not working on an energetic level. It’s a very physical, it’s like one dimensional.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
How you feel doesn’t matter to them.
Jaguar Womban:
No.
David:
I mean, maybe a little bit.
Jaguar Womban:
It’s the business. It’s been made into a business. That’s a whole — that’s —
David:
That’s another podcast. We don’t —
Jaguar Womban:
I’m like, should I go in?
David:
So, one thing you’ve mentioned a couple times that I have no —
Jaguar Womban:
The word womb? LAUGHS
David:

Not just womb.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
Yoni and steaming — womb steaming, yoni steaming. And it was weird, because I know a lot
about that. And it’s kind of a secret. I guess not now. I’m telling like an entire audience, a
podcast that. I know a lot about yoni steaming and all this. And that’s what you do. You do work
with yoni steaming. And I think for a lot of people listening, they’re like, what are you talking
about? So, could you actually tell us what womb steaming, yoni steaming — you call them tea
ceremonies or something like that?
Jaguar Womban:
Oh, I call my one on ones TEASessions. T stands for Total Energy alignment.
David:
Okay. And so, can you describe what is that? What does it look like? And why do people do
that? Or why do women do that?
Jaguar Womban:
So logistically speaking, it’s a large salad size bowl, boiling water, and salt, which most people
don’t use, but it’s what makes it the womb steam actually. So, if you take some dry herbs, salt,
boiling water over them, the chemical reaction that will occur is the dry plants releasing their
essential oils up in the steam, right? And what can benefit the body is for a womb carrier, to
place her most absorbent tissues which are in your uterine floor, in a place like over the bowl —
so squatting or kneeling, so that the essential oils rising up in the steam, because of the boiling
water, and the dried plant, and the salt can enter your body through your most absorbent tissues
in your uterine floor. So, it’s like nothing particularly magical. Or is it?
David:
You’re steaming your vagina?
Jaguar Womban:
Yes.
David:
Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
And the significance of steaming, it’s like you can steam any place. You can do a facial steam
when you’re congested.
David:
Which is awesome.

Jaguar Womban:
Which is awesome.
David:
I love doing that.
Jaguar Womban:
You can be in a steam room with like different plants and have like, the herbs enter your body
through your pores, you know, anytime you’re working with the plant medicine, there’s a
consistent rhythm and frequency, plants have their own electrical frequencies. There’s a
consistent rhythm and frequency to the medicine coming out of the plant. So, let’s say lavender,
so you smell lavender, you feel a bit calm, you make an eye pillow with some lavender in it, it’ll
help you go to sleep, you drink some lavender tea, you’re going to relax, kind of like from within
the body traveling through the bloodstream. You make a lavender bath, you’re going to get into
it. So, it’s like in a topical way, entering your body to the pores. You make little lavender cream,
you’re gonna like put it on your body, it will soothe, right. Like you get into like layers of what
lavender is, it’s also in addition to a smell. It’s an antibacterial, it’s such a, such a. What becomes
very potent is when for the woman because her most absorbent tissues are in this part of her
body. So, it’s like you’re getting like deep hit, deep cut lavender, right? It’s like hitting the most
absorbent part of you. So, you’re feeling so, so, so relaxed.
David:
Like a heroic dose —
Jaguar Womban:
A heroic dose, right.
David:
But through your vagina.
Jaguar Womban:
Through your vagina. So that’s what makes it feel so revolutionary. If you add on top of that,
something that I like about the practice, and especially with my foundational kind of mindsets
that we’ve referenced earlier about just experiential knowledge, it’s something with complete
cynicism, and a complete lack of belief in the concept of yoni steaming. If you squat your body,
over the bowl, with the salt and the herbs, and like the whole recipe of plants that has been put
together, you’re gonna feel something. You’re gonna feel it.
David:
Yeah. And I’ve also —
Jaguar Womban:
You have to believe in it.
David:

I also seen other women and one of my best friends who we used to, like, be together and then
we weren’t anymore, and we just continued our friendship and we’re just like so solid, but she
has a yoni steaming business. And so, she sells all the herbs. You have like a five gallon bucket,
and then you make this seat and you cut a hole in the middle, and you put —
Jaguar Womban:
So, I’m not — yeah, so I don’t teach with seats.
David:
Okay.
Jaguar Womban:
Everybody should do — yeah, everybody should do things in their own way. But then I do have
like, the method that like, you know, every artist has their style. So, my style — inherent to my
style that I’m sharing is no seat, for various reasons.
David:
And those are?
Jaguar Womban:
One is that this is what happens in the West, we take an indigenous practice, we want to receive
the benefit of it, but with a touch more comfort, just be like a little more comfortable.
David:
Interesting. Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
We could just sit down.
David:
I can — I can feel that.
Jaguar Womban:
Right, but no, you cannot because it’s a formula.
David:
But — okay, so —
Jaguar Womban:
You cannot edit the formula and have the same results.
David:
Back in the early days before, you know, there was like Western medicine to help you birth and
birthing practices and all this, how did women have birth?
Jaguar Womban:

Birth in the squatting position. It’s gravity.
David:
You’re like birthing a transformation.
Jaguar Womban:
What do we call the squat down yoga? Prayer posture. This is a posture from which concepts,
words are birthed into the physical being, it’s the birthing posture. Something is happening to
your pelvis and your body that it’s open to both receive and to give when you like, squat down.
Something is happening to your strength and your core and your vaginal flora, when you learn
how to squat for a prolonged period of time. Traditionally, the womb steam practice begins after
your first blood. So, you would be squatting every month, like in a rhythm. And by the time
you’re going to push that baby out for 12 hours, you know how to squat, because you’ve been
doing your womb steam practice, after your moon cycle, every single month, it’s a training. It’s
training you to like physically birth, and it’s training you to energetically birth. And when you sit
your body down on a little box like this, also, your pelvis is not open to get the medicine. And so,
it also really reduces the potency. All of that said —
David:
Interesting, wow.
Jaguar Womban:
It’s better to steam than not to steam.
David:
Yeah, I can totally understand that though. That’s — that’s beautiful. And so, there’s a lot of
energy talk with the steaming. What are some, like physical, biological enhancements or things
that happen to a woman when they do this?
Jaguar Womban:
Right. So, I really am with the brain, because I come from this traumatic brain injury diagnosis
like into the juju, right. And I think just one, the bravery of trying something new, it’s going to
open up a new neural pathway, a new thing that you’re doing, it’s really, it’s an ancient thing.
So, it’s going to open up a memory, also simultaneously, in this new pathway, new experiences
and information can flow. So just from the bravery from attempting this new thing in this new
physical position, down over these bowls, and like squatting down with this other…. it’s like
new something is happening in your brain. So that’s level one. And once we do something new,
then like new experiences can then like come — it’s like the river, the water flows, and the river
cuts through the earth, you know, and like expands like a new doorway. More magic and
information can then travel down along that pathway, which is why I feel you do that — you do
come into your TEASession, you have one womb steam, and then all these new different things
start happening to you. So, it’s like level one, like the most level one of it is you’ve opened up a
new pathway. Two, you’re squatting down over boiling water, you’re doing something new,
you’re like really nervous. You’re like, oh, shit, what’s going on? It’s like, here, this black lady
told me to squat over this bowl. And so, it’s like, ah, your brain is like in a heightened state of
awareness. You don’t want to like mess it up. You don’t want to burn your vagina. This is like

really intense. So, what’s happening? Your brain is like, what is my vagina feeling? What is my
vagina feeling? What is my vagina feeling, protect the vagina, don’t go too low to the bowl.
Scout up, it feels hot, move to the left. So, what’s happening in this period of time, you’ve now
had a 30 minute conversation connecting your brain to your vagina. So, you’ve opened up a new
pathway, and what is that pathway? It’s a vagina to Third Eye pathway. So now next thing you
know, you’re like hearing what your vagina has been saying that whole time. So, then you’re in
the grocery store, you’re like, I’m gonna get some cucumbers, because they’re on my list, and
you’re touching the cucumber and your vagina is like, I want a mango. Right. So, then you’re
gonna like, oh, snap, no, my vagina — I can hear her like, wow, you put down the cucumber,
you go over to the mango. What happens there? A whole new trajectory and portal opens up
because you’ve put down the cucumber and you walked over to the mango. And over at the
mango, you meet a woman who tells you about blah, blah, blah. And then she hands you a
pamphlet. You open the pamphlet and it’s like describing something in your ancestral line, you
take a trip to Ireland, you discover your power. You’re a Celtic witch, whatever, you know what
I’m saying? Okay, womb steam. LAUGHS
David:
Wow. Okay. So, I mean, you know, my — my understanding is limited because I am a man. I
am not biologically, you know —
Jaguar Womban:
It’s not limited though. I don’t like —
David:
I can’t talk to my vagina because I don’t have one. But I can totally understand what you’re
saying is like, you create this situation where you are having this long conversation and you’re
like, you’re feeling the sensation of the steam, you’re feeling the danger, you’re feeling the —
the like, you’re talking to it, it’s talking to you, and you’re working together to figure it out. And
then it just feels like —
Jaguar Womban:
You’ve opened up a line of communication directly.
David:
I can like totally understand what’s going on there.
Jaguar Womban:
But even if I were to tell you like place your hand like over a flame and just keep it at a certain
distance where it doesn’t burn your hand, but you feel the heat —
David:
The liminal space.
Jaguar Womban:
And do that, the liminal space, boom.

David:
I see, okay. Yeah, it’s like dying and yang of that sort of transformation is probably like
happening is that comfortability of challenge.
Jaguar Womban:
We can get into the liminal, we can birth new things. It’s the center where you can like enter the
new program. It’s where the magic happens. Right? Okay.
David:
So good.
Jaguar Womban:
It’s so good. Okay, next things — next thing that’s gonna happen. So, the body is a mirror. It’s a
parable. Right? Your most absorbent tissues are in this place. So, what’s that telling us? That’s
interesting. So also it can like birth out a life form. Okay, that’s interesting. And then also, it’s
absorbing all the information, okay? Okay, so that’s telling me my whole life, this part of my
body has been absorbing everything? Whoa, maybe there’s a lot going on down there. And then
I’m going to add like a drop of yarrow. If I put some yarrow on a snake bite, it’ll pull out the
venom, you know what I’m saying. So, I’m gonna put a little bit of that in your poom, poom, it
will also pull out the venom. And this is why I like the work because I don’t need to talk to you,
convince you, teach you necessarily — just the steps. And then I love the doubters. I’m like, go
accountant, lawyer and squat over the bowl. I love that so much.
David:
And then come back to me —
Jaguar Womban:
And then we can chat. Yes.
David:
Yeah, I love that type of stuff, where it’s like, I’m not trying to convince you — just do the thing.
And then you’ll see.
Jaguar Womban:
Which is why I say just the bravery and the trust. I think that what — kind of like part of why I
selected this body of La Vonne, which is like, is inherent to the way that it’s placed in the earth.
There’s a certain even subconscious archetypal things happening. It’s an energy where, okay, I
feel — I feel safe to do that, you know. One of the first things I did after coming back into the
body and not on this journey was, I was a nanny, right? I just like went in, these people hired me
to watch their kids, because I just have that energy. Right? It’s like, I’m gonna leave my baby
with you. Right? So, keep that same energy. Like your little pom pom time. Okay. And that’s
really all that’s needed. And so, there is like a magic to that. I do think it’s like, yeah, I can get
like people to do weird things — there’s like a sense of trust that people feel, and you do need —
so if there is like a work that I’m doing, because I really feel like the plants do the work. That’s
what I’m saying. And I feel like if there’s something that I do, it’s just make a space where
you’re like, I will squat over the bowl. Okay, you know?

David:
Yeah, you’re the invitation.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
I see.
Jaguar Womban:
Then the yarrow is going to do the exorcism. And I like that to be clear. Because it’s really
important to me that I’m not a healer, not a guru. I’m a woman.
David:
Okay, yeah. I was noticing that you do — you facilitate a monthly steaming session on the new
moon? Yes. And I was wondering, what is the significance of doing a steam on the new moon?
And also, so like, you know, a woman has a moon cycle. And sometimes that moon cycle
doesn’t fall on the new moon, it’s like in between the month, it’s just kind of wherever — all
women are different. They have like different places of when thye’re —
Jaguar Womban:
But we do sync.
David:
Yeah, I’m just kind of wondering how, like, is there a significance of doing a steam on the new
moon compared to like, maybe doing it on your moon? Like, do you not steam on your moon or
—
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah, unless there’s a specific reason to steam on the moon, then that’s not the ideal time to
steam, like it’s just standard time nothing’s going on is three to five days after your moon cycle
is complete, right? But then so — what connects to my car accident situation is that when I’m
with a womb carrier, I start hearing — connects to the poetry and the present, right? The La
Vonne and the Jaguar. When I’m with a womb carrier, they start… and then I’ll start hearing
dah, dah, dah — mugwort, motherwort, yarrow, lavender, rosemary sage, like that. And then
that’s their recipe. That’s a TEASession. You’re rambling and I start and you’re like and it’ll like
get quiet your voice and then I’ll start hearing dah, dah, dah — it has like a feeling coming into
my brain and a rhythm, and it’ll be a recipe. And it’s a tea because initially I would make it into
a tea, make them drink, then I would make baths and then the most potent way to get it into them
is — is through the womb steam but that’s like the rhythmic frequency electrical alchemy that’s
needed to suture the auric field in the quantum space. And the womb space is timeless, whether
we believe in it or not, you know, I was alive on a cellular level inside of my mother when she
was inside of my grandmother. So, there’s something ancestral, that’s going to be happening.
And then my grandmother is now in the earth where I pulled up the roots from and put them into

the bowl with the salt, then squatted the womb space over it. So, it’s just like boop, boop, boop
— you feel me?
David:
Yeah.
Jaguar Womban:
So, it’s like synchronization happening with the cycles of the Earth, with the cycles of life, the
womb, the tomb, the birthing, the death, the dying. Tantra, it’s like a circle, which is the void to
source the liminal space. The black seed under the ground, in the dark. Feeling the light and like
pushing up, and like pushing out, sprouting into a little — a little tiny, little sprout, that will push
up into a tree, that will push out leaves, that will push out little blossoms that will flower that will
drop seeds, that will come into the earth into the dark. It’s all the one thing, right? Feeling the
pull of the sun. This is the answer to your question about why steam on the new moon. We go
into the dark moon, together, I feel there is one womb furthermore. We go into the dark moon,
under the dark moon, we gather as womb carriers. We steam, part of what happened to the new
womb steam is I’m going to sit specifically channel, create whatever word feels you — makes
you feel comfortable a recipe for that month. It’s a different recipe every month. And we’re
steaming with the same exact recipes — I mail it to your house. At the same exact time, at the
same exact placement of the moon cycle, all of us all together. So, once you’ve steamed three
months — anyways, we’re bleeding at the same time. And I do have a goal that every womb
carrier should have their menstrual cycle all at the same time all over the planet. And when this
has been achieved (LAUGHS) we’ll see what will happen when we all have our period at the
same time, you feel me? It’s a synchronizing.
David:
Is that a good idea?
Jaguar Womban:
It’s the original way.
David:
Okay. Interesting. Like things I would never think about.
Jaguar Womban:
Just one movement.
David:
So interesting.
Jaguar Womban:
Like all of us and Mother Earth, like moving as one. It’s a really good idea. It’s a remembrance.
David:
Some powerful stuff.

Jaguar Womban:
The New Moon is a good time to enter the codes. You know, it’s like going in the dark. It’s like
certain things get done in the dark.
David:
It’s like refreshing a page.
Jaguar Womban:
Yes.
David:
It’s the information is there, but we’re just kind of, upgrading it.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah.
David:
I see. Wow. Like, first off, you just feel amazing. Like you’re — I feel like we have such a fun
energy in this room. And it’s so beautiful. I feel like I already know you. I just met you like
maybe like an hour and a half ago.
Jaguar Womban:
I know!
David:
Man, Naropa has got some really awesome conversations coming at them. And it’s just — you
just feel so impactful. You have so much knowledge and you’re just such a champion for womb,
the way you’re like expanding my thoughts as — as a man and someone who supports womb
carrying people as well. Like — like, I feel really honored to hear the wisdom that you’re
sharing. Yeah, I just want to, like give you this moment, is there anything else you’d like to say?
And then maybe at the end of that, you know, you can like say, your website, your social so
people can reach out to you. Because in there might be someone out in the audience who is like,
I need to steam with this woman.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah, all you all do. Just one time. Like, I don’t feel like oh, this is my practitioner for life. I
would like to give every womb carrier on the planet one session. And that’s how I see my
sessions. I just need to — maybe it’s smarter marketing to just like, do more podcasts. Like —
like, can I give every woman on the planet one session, but — but the point of that is, it’s just
kind of this specific download that I want to get out to everybody just like the one time. And then
you don’t need to keep coming back to me. But just keep the practice. I would say about womb
steaming something I say a lot. Nobody says I did yoga one time, 20 years ago, and then my
body just like totally transformed. And that’s how I know it works. It’s like no, you learned it 20
years ago, then you developed a practice. And in the practice you transformed. So, there’s a level
of like finding the truth and then committing to the path. And then that is experiencing the finite
within the infinite, you know, which is where all the magic can arise. I feel really honored to be

here. I feel really — I’ve really enjoyed talking with you. I feel were cell family or a Jaguar
people.
David:
I’m coming to Oaxaca.
Jaguar Womban:
You’re coming to Oaxaca.
David:
I’m going to find you. I’m going to come hang out.
Jaguar Womban:
This is —
David:
We’ll walk through the market, we’ll buy avocados together.
Jaguar Womban:
And that is my current goal, actually, I want to — I have my space that I’m in building in
Oaxaca, which I’ve called Utera. U-T-E-R-A and utera is the uterus, but I’ve made it an — I
kind of made up a word. So, I put the A on the end instead of the O. So, I made a feminine
version of uterus, in Spanish. Yeah, so utera is my little space. And I just want to work with one
client at a time, which I think will also allow me to see men too, but you can like come visit me
for a period of time. I’ll like dump herbs on you, we’ll walk to the market.
David:
I’m so down. Like — I like for cologne, I wear geranium. That’s my jam. I make my own
chapstick, like —
Jaguar Womban:
Oh my god!
David:
Like I’m — there’s like a hidden witch in me.
Jaguar Womban:
It’s not hidden. LAUGHS.
David:
I don’t fuck around. I know how to get down.
Jaguar Womban:
A witch is really, yeah, I feel that. You can feel the plant medicine in the frequency. And that’s
the thing. And when I do work with the non womb carrying body, you’re like, say one more
thing. And then I’m just like, 30 minutes later, but like, it’s, um, typically I’ll make a bath blend

like this, I’ll start hearing the same blend. Yeah, um, and it will be a bath, and you’ll enter into
the bath and like stay in there. So, it’s been really good to be here. I love Naropa. Magic always
happens I feel — Naropa likes to invite me to do things because it’s I’m like a believer. I believe
in the potency of dislocation and in the original vision of the space, right? And things will always
shift and evolve. But I believe in what it brought to me and how it played a role even if I can’t
articulate it in the transform — transformation, transfiguration journey that I went on and that I
continue to be on and — so just I always know when I — when I’m like pulled back here, it’s
because there’s a level up and it was just my birthday, so it’s like really good time.
David:
Happy birthday! My Libra — yeah, sister over here.
Jaguar Womban:
And we’re in the Aries full moon. It was just a full moon yesterday. So, we’re still in the energy
and I’m an Aries rising.
David:
I was taking photos of that moon last night.
Jaguar Womban:
Really wild.
David:
I was about to go to sleep, and I saw the moon and I came down here, I grabbed my camera. I
just like — I had to take some photos.
Jaguar Womban:
I feel Artemis energy in you.
David:
All the things.
Jaguar Womban:
Think of what herbs I want to give you, okay.
David:
I have a lot of herbs already. So, I might —
Jaguar Womban:
Ok, good. You’re ready.
David:
I might have them. I just — you have to tell me how to put them together.
Jaguar Womban:

Okay, I feel like you know all this stuff. Download complete between us. Oh, yeah. Do we have
listeners my bad? LAUGHS. I’m just like deep in with you. Okay, my things. My Instagram is
Jaguar Womban with a B. Utera now has its own page. And womb.nation.org is the website that
you can join — that you can go and apply actually, if you’d like to join me on the journey of
synchronizing our womb spaces so that we can birth the New Earth in an orgasmic way, which is
the purpose of —
David:
I love it.
Jaguar Womban:
Yeah, yeah.
David:
I’m on your team. As a man —
Jaguar Womban:
I feel you.
David:
I’m here. And I’m on the team for you.
Jaguar Womban:
I feel it.
David:
I support. I support all of this.
Jaguar Womban:
I feel it and I love it. Yeah, I feel it. I feel it.
David:
Awesome.
Jaguar Womban:
Thank you.
David:
So, I really appreciate you giving me your time. And Naropa is — is really excited to have you
and I just, you know, I hope the listeners can reach out to you and kind of explore that womb
space with you because it does feel very powerful and healthy wombs birth healthy individuals.
And I think that’s a foundational place to start for like fixing some of the stuff that could be
going on, the energetic stickiness, you know, and so it’s — it’s been such a beautiful
conversation and I just appreciate you speaking with me today.
Jaguar Womban:

Oh, ashe. Amen.
[MUSIC]
On behalf of the Naropa community, thank you for listening to Mindful U. The official podcast
of Naropa University. Check us out at www.naropa.edu or follow us on social media for more
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